Tales of the Jewel

Currently thrown weapons are handled by a wide array of unrelated skills that sometimes conflict in intent (spears being Spears but knives being Athletics instead of Knives)

Should an adjustment be made and, if so, how should it be addressed.

And to add madness to the madness, improvised melee weapons are handled under jiujutsu/brawling.

Perhaps put all improvised weapons under Athletics?

If I might suggest another option- keep melee Improvised Weapons under Jiujutsu (it's akin to how feats in dnd allow you to punch AND use Improvised Weapons in melee after all!), keep throwing Improvised Weapons and other weapons "not specifically made for throwing" under Athletics (as normal), and keep things such as Javelins under the appropriate weapon skill (Spear for javelins for instance), as normal.

But:
- Allow knives that can be thrown to be thrown using both Athletics and knives. They are not incredibly strong Weapons, so I think giving them some leeway wouldn't be bad
- For future throwing Weapons, define whether they use Athletics, the Weapon Skill most appropriate for them.... or if they are very specific, maybe add them to a specific skill or create an "other throwing weapons" skill?

What do you think?

Actually -

Foe those voting to change throwing knives to the knives skill - is that mostly to prevent knife users to have to take both knives and Athletics?

How would you feel if both skills could be used to throw knives?

personally I never understood why someone who has zero ranks in knives could know how to throw a knife better than someone with multiple ranks in the skill simply because they were more athletic. Having the knives skill makes sense to understand the best way to use a knife as a weapon after all - why doesn't that also cover throwing it?

Raya wrote: ↑

Sat Jun 04, 2022 5:01 pm

personally I never understood why someone who has zero ranks in knives could know how to throw a knife better than someone with multiple ranks in the skill simply because they were more athletic. Having the knives skill makes sense to understand the best way to use a knife as a weapon after all - why doesn't that also cover throwing it?

What I had been thinking (and its how I'll probably rule it if I run a 4e game later - been planning on a LBS game as some know!) is that 'both' skills are relevant to throwing knives. Someone who is a good knife user should cover throwing knives that can be thrown (probably doesn't apply to kukri and Katar??).

But then throwing is also a specific emphasis of the Athletics Skill too! So it makes sense to me that both could apply to throwing knives.

I can see both Athletics and Knives as a throwing for knives thing, mostly because Knives gives you beneits to throwing compared to Athletics, while someone might have Athletics I guess.

I mean, knives in general are still bad weapons.

The bigger question is, how does throwing knives interact with Simple Action Attack structure which relevant to knives?

The "several skills" option might be both the fairest and the one with most potential here. There is a super frustrating feature of 4ed about not being able to do something that would be so cool (even if the odds are so low) because you're out of void points, don't have the skill, and thus cannot raise.

So something like:
Knives can be thrown using Knives.
Knives can also be thrown using Athletics (Throwing) or Brawling (Improvised Weapons), but at a +5TN.

That way, people who actually put points in the Knives skill aren't penalized, and people can always in a pinch attempt to throw a knife like they would throw a rock or sand (yes, because the former is Athletics and the later Brawling per raw).

I've made it so people can adjust their votes if they wish. If Athletics wins I might allow for multiple skills to be used.

Though I still have doubt as to the balance (in build options not necessarily in mechanics) of having the one weapon legally allowed in the city be piggybacked on top of a second, also very useful, skill.